Starting Today, Biking Like An Asshole Is The Most Expensive Habit You Have
Good morning! Remember all of that bike stuff we’ve been talking about all week? Well, in lieu of that new proposed bicycle legislation, the Bicycle Coalition of Greater Philadelphia and the po-po have met up and decided that, effective today, pretty much all bike traffic laws already on the books. Which means… tickets and fines for any errant bicyclists who get caught. And the fines are nothing to sneeze at. Via bikephl.bicyclecoalition.org
Vehicle Code Violations:
3112-A-3i- Disregard Traffic Signal ($119.50)
3112-A-3ii- Turn on Red, Fail to Stop/Yield Pedestrian/Traffic ($119.50)
3308-B- Wrong Way 1-Way ($119.50)
3323-B- Disregard Stop Sign ($119.50)
3323-C- Disregard Yield Sign ($119.50)
3345-A- Improper Passing of a School Bus ($364.50)
3542-A- Failure to Yield to Pedestrian in crosswalk court ($119.50)
3711-A- Clinging to a Moving Vehicle ($119.50)
3714- Careless Driving ($119.50)
3736-A- Reckless Driving ($294.50)Philadelphia Traffic Ordinances:
12-808 Riding a Bicycle on a Sidewalk ($54.00)
We had a feeling it would come to this: What began in City Council as some legislation reacting to a recent tragedy will quickly turn into a cash cow for the city — that is, if the cops actually make it a priority and do not regard it as an insult to the art of crimefighting. We’re not saying it’s good or bad, we’re just saying it is. The world is a vampire. And as you know, vampires aren’t so much concerned with how right or wrong things are. And if True Blood is to be believed, they’re also pretty good with money.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
I’m looking forward to them doing exactly what they should have done in the first place: ENFORCING THE LAW.
If this works, who knows, maybe we won’t actually have a need for the legislation.
Also, as for “maybe the cops could stop real criminals” line: The fact is, a lot of cyclists breaking these laws is an actual problem and, more importantly, a safety hazard. Two deaths to pedestrians because of the behavior, and I can’t count how many times I’ve seen a cyclist come close to hitting someone or getting hit by a car.
Enforce it, baby! I’m looking forward to it!
November 20th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
@ Larry
Not discounting two unfortunate deaths to pedestrians and the general idea that laws should be enforced, the point made by comments such as “maybe the cops could stop real criminals” is not a trivial one. Two deaths versus how many homicides and automobile related fatalities in the city? Uproar over recent, and relatively rare tragedies, should not sway a long term police policy and strategy. It’s this sort of media ginned up fervor that all to frequently distracts Americans, in Philly and everywhere else, from deeper more fundamental problems in law and society.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Christ, i racked up $651.50 on my way to work this morning. I’m gonna buy a car.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
i will be taking a whole lane at all times when there’s no bike lane available. they want me to be treated like a car? then i’m taking what’s mine.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
But the problem is that, the two deaths aside, there has been a real problem with cyclists breaking the laws for YEARS.
For as long as I can remember, there has been a serious problem with cyclists (especially bike messengers) breaking the law on bikes in Center City causing both near-misses and problems. Its a systematic problem, and if actually enforcing the legislation and law that already exists help the problem, I’m all for it.
Saying “they should stop real criminals” is basically what they’re doing. Its the “broken windows” policy, really: Tackle the small crimes and show that there will be enforcement of the law, and the others fall in line. If you KNOW you’re going to get busted for breaking bike laws, you in turn will follow said low.
The same thing happened with the “block the box” and laws about enforcing parking laws. It needs to happen, and that’s really is that.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
A potential safety hazard is in no way comparable to the dangerous crimes that are committed every day in our city’s least patrolled neighborhoods. A lot of the “Don’t Snitch” mentality arises from the fact that residents of these crime ridden neighborhoods feel completely unsafe and ignored due to the lack of police presence.
Expat’s right, how about focusing more on the assault and homicide problem first before lighting the torches and joining the media sensationalism over a freak accident. I’d be happy to follow the traffic laws if there was an effort to give bicycles the same attention that motor vehicles receive, and if they made sense. Case in point: Utah red light law and our severe lack of bike lanes.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
break out the Heelys!
November 20th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
“and that’s really is that.”
Well put, you genius.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
As long as they enforce motor vehicle traffic violations with the same zeal I’m ok with this.
The lack of enforcement of “minor” offenses like rolling stops (cars), South Philly double parking, smoking in subway stations, etc., creates a permissive atmosphere for all kinds of bad or dangerous behavior. Non-enforcement gives the impression given by police that the laws don’t actually mean anything or are subject to highly selective and subjective enforcement.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
@mmmmokay:
Enforcement in Center City by current cops on patrol doesn’t equal less enforcement in more crime-ridden areas. Your right, more needs to be done to focus and enforce crimes in those areas, and no one would dare dispute that. Putting money and effort into combating crime there needs to happen.
In the short term, enforcing this makes sense and its a small, quick, and effective way to curtail a problem.
The thing that also keeps getting ignored is this: If this stops new legislation and makes things safer on a whole, isn’t that better than making new laws that would, in the end, require MORE resources to enforce?
November 20th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
And yet I see no police activity out there. I was hoping to document someone getting hassled by the cops and walked all over center city but it appears it was all police and media hype. Sorry you aren’t getting your justice, Larry. Too bad for you.
I just wish the cops and the press would focus on the real menace on the street – taxi drivers. How many cyclists and pedestrians have been killed or seriously injured by those criminals?
November 20th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
@ Larry
Broken Windows is the most over, and wrongly, cited example of successful law enforcement strategy in the US. Time after time people cite Giuliani’s implementation of Broken Windows in the ’90s and ascribe New York’s drop in crime during that period to Broken Windows. What people often don’t understand is that crime fell in almost every metropolitan area, Philly included, in the US during this period, largely due to a strong economy. Most cities, Philly for one, weren’t using a Broken Windows policy. Broken Windows was coincidental with New York’s crime drop, not causal.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
stop snitching isn’t because there isn’t a police presence in those neighborhoods, it’s because the police have militarized those neighborhoods. The police are all over the neighborhoods where stop snitching is most popular…but they aren’t a resource to be trusted in them (especially if you’ve got an outstanding warrant or case or know someone who does, etc.). It’s not the lack of protection, it’s the us vs. them that created stop snitching*
*that and the cynical use of snitching on rivals to build one’s own drug trade.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
@expat attack:
I’m talking about the theory in and of itself. “Broken Windows” did work, largely because the economic conditions in the country and the city got better at the same time. Its safe to say that, were it not for the program, the city wouldn’t have been as cleaned up as it is now. It wasn’t the only solution to the problem, but it helped. Meanwhile, other major cities saw a drop in crime, but how many have reverted back to previous problems from that time due to the economy, and which ones stayed relatively better?
The concept in and of itself is sound, and it gets to the heart of what I’m saying: Enforce the law, make it known, and the problem is stemmed.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
3112-A-3i- Disregard Traffic Signal ($119.50) shit!
3112-A-3ii- Turn on Red, Fail to Stop/Yield Pedestrian/Traffic ($119.50) Fuck!
3308-B- Wrong Way 1-Way ($119.50) Damn!
3323-B- Disregard Stop Sign ($119.50) Piss!
3323-C- Disregard Yield Sign ($119.50)
3345-A- Improper Passing of a School Bus ($364.50)
3542-A- Failure to Yield to Pedestrian in crosswalk court ($119.50)
3711-A- Clinging to a Moving Vehicle ($119.50)
3714- Careless Driving ($119.50)
3736-A- Reckless Driving ($294.50)
November 20th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
oops. that posted to soon.
Basically, I’m fucked and I’m not even a bad rider. I just definitely break several of those every day.
I hope that they don’t just go on a witch hunt ticketing every little thing they see.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Somebody get our resident genius Larry a job at the Department of Homeland Security.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Finally we can end this scourge of thousands of bikers every day improperly passing the school buses that every Philadelphia student rides to school.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
@ Larry
You really have no idea what you’re talking about here. Broken Windows goes in and out of favor in cities across the country like hairstyles. I don’t know what city you’re referring to, NY or Philly, in your reply, but it doesn’t matter much because you would wrong in ascribing Broken Windows as a reason for it being “cleaned up” in either case for reasons described in my previous comment.
The concept in and of itself is not sound because results haven’t actually ever been born out. The policy in and of itself is self gratifying, no more. People feel a sense of justice and vindication when they believe or see small crimes prosecuted. Serious crime remains unaffected though.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
I could not be more excited for these to start being enforced. Cyclists need to realize that there shit does stink and usually a lot worse than most people. Maybe if the popo really does there job on this, the sales tax can come back down, maybe cut back city wage tax and I won’t feel like some asshole is going to ride over me on the sidewalk or sue me after they disregard the traffic laws and get hit by my car. Some times Philly gets it right.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
everyday philly seems more and more like a small town with handfull of skyscrapers. no wonder new york looks down on us.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Ha. I can hardly wait to start riding my bike in the manner which is actually legal AND more beneficial to me. In the middle of the lane! I’m going to ride my bike like I’m supposed to instead of on the side of the road where cars can pass me and I endanger myself. Be prepared for more traffic Philadelphia, a whole lot more.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
@fractionofawhole
yup. they wanna fuck with my lifestyle, i’m more than willing to fuck up their’s.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
@larry + @expat attack – will one of you cite a fact about broken windows or are you just gonna say “yes” and “no” repeatedly?
November 20th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
@ TonyRandall
You really think that they are going to collect enough fines to lower your taxes? Keep dreaming.
Reality is, the greater majority of riders in this city are courteous and follow the rules for the most part. There are certainly a good number of douchebags that flaunt the rules in center city, but I don’t think that this is nearly the crisis that it is being made out to be. For every rider that gets in your way, there is a driver purposefully cutting a biker off by driving in the bike lane, or being too impatient to wait for a bike to clear an intersection before driving past him and turning in front of him.
At least once a week I am nearly killed on 6th street south of spring garden by some fool that is in too much of a hurry to follow the law, or even the cause of common decency.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
More rules to be randomly and arbitrarily applied.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Thank god there’s nothing about BUI on there. I can still bike home ‘faced from the bar…
November 20th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
wow, imagine if every cyclist obeyed every one of these laws written for cars – middle of the lane, stopping at every red light, stop sign and right turn, yielding to every pedestrian in the streets. boy the Septa strike would look like a picnic.
time for a really really legal just-as-they-want-it critical mass ride.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
@radioactivecat
haha BUI’s are already on the books:
http://www.dui.com/dui-library/pennsylvania/news/man-jailed-for-pennsylvania-dui-on-bike
–
@arcticsplasher
i was thinking the same thing. there NEEDS to be a protest ride or two or ten. we can’t take this one sitting on our asses.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
@philthydan
I can still dream…but in my years around this town, the law abiding biker is a rarity, and if you are a good biker, one who follows all the above stated regulations, then I sympathize with you and your ride down 6th street, but for the much larger number of cyclists that consider them selves entitled to the roads regardless of people on foot or in car, i have little sympathy.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
@lightonfire – yeah, I know – was just being facetious… I wonder if they can take away your drivers license if you’re busted.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
@radioactivecat
yea they can actually. i read an instance of it somewhere in PA but i can’t find the link. they take it away for like 2 years or something like that.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Can’t wait to take up a lane going down 8th on my way home tonight.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
So that all makes sense…because a shitton of cyclists are dicks. But how about they start enforcing no parking in the goddamn bike lanes? Just because you go to church does not mean that you get to park in the bike lane on Sundays. And I don’t know what people’s excuses are for parking in them on Saturdays. UGH.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I’VE COME UP WITH THE SOLUTION!
make every car that comes into the city pay a toll! not only will it cut down on traffic, it’ll take care of the budget deficit, AND much less pollution!!
FUCK YOUR CAR. CHICKS DIG BIKERS ANYWAYS.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
I call BS on the whole thing. All I have to do is not have any form of identification on me and they can’t give me a ticket. I’m pretty sure you’re not required to carry identification unless you’re driving a car. I guess they jail me but I’m pretty sure I could sue the city for wrongful imprisonment.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
@lightonfire: congestion pricing has been pretty controversial in London and if it can’t pass in NYC or San Francisco, what makes you think the stooges in city council would go for it? Here’s hoping anyway. It would be delightful to charge all those Jersey douchebags above and beyond the bridge toll.
“You wanna come piss on the street in Old City, that’s gonna cost you double, bub.”
November 20th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
So for the no cell phone while driving law, drivers get a 30 day grace period during November even after the law was passed in the spring. But for laws targeted at bikers…
November 20th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Fuck DiCicco. I don’t even live in his district and it looks like I’ll be cutting a check to Vern Anastasio soon. You’re on my shit list too, Kenney. You can all cut, paste, edit and forward to your neanderthal councilperson and tell the mayor to veto this bullshit.
Madame Verna,
I’m happy to see that the city has started to enforce the motor vehicle code as it relates to bicycles. I’ll also be happy to see the city enforce the motor vehicle code as it relates to motor vehicles. In particular I’m speaking of motorists exceeding the posted speed limit, texting and chatting on cell phones, operating their sound systems at full volume, running red lights, not coming to a complete stop at stop signs, ignoring ‘no turn on red’ signs, blocking the crosswalk, parking in a bike lane, parking on the sidewalk or double-parking. As I’m sure you know, this behavior is rampant and goes largely unpunished.
In the interest of making the streets safer the PPD should also start ticketing pedestrians who cross on a red light and those who cross outside of designated crosswalks. I have had several near misses with jay-walking pedestrians who don’t understand the laws or their responsibilities. These activities can occur hundreds of times per day on a single block and are incredibly dangerous for pedestrians and, as we have seen, potentially fatal to both cyclists and pedestrians.
Now that the city will have extra money from fining cyclists it will now have the money for more bicycle facilities and to properly manage the facilities it already has. In your district in particular we need an one more northbound bike lane between Broad St. and 22nd St. and two more southbound bike lines. Currently there are no southbound lanes at all. Washington Ave. has crosstown bike lanes that are full of illegally parked cars at all hours of the day and night, seven days a week. Business owners have actually taken to setting up displays in the bike lanes as well as using them for temporary storage. All of the bike lanes should re-striped once a year.
As I’m sure you’re also aware, motorists striking cyclists with their vehicles accidentally or on purpose happens several times per day. In many cases the motorist leaves the scene of the crime. Recently a young woman was struck by a taxi at Broad & Federal. The driver sped off and the woman spent over a week in the hospital and is lucky to be alive.
A week later at Broad & Spruce another cyclist and 3 pedestrians were seriously injured after a cab driver swerved to avoid another car. He was going driving so fast that he jumped a curb and went half a block on the sidewalk before coming to a stop. One of his victims is now a double-amputee. Over the summer a speeding motorist went around other stopped traffic to strike a father and son as they were walking their tandem bike through the crosswalk on MLK Dr. near Spring Garden St. These motorists need to be off of the street and that won’t happen until the police start enforcing the rules and the courts start handing down punishment that reflects the gravity of the crime.
Safe streets has long been a concern of mine and I’m glad to see the city finally, if only half-heartedly, starting to take it seriously. On that note I’d like to address pending legislation in City Hall that has been introduced by Councilmen Kenney and DiCicco. It is absolutely outrageous that someone in this day and age would vote to discourage bicycling. It’s especially outrageous in a city with traffic and parking problems, serious air pollution problems and regular transit interruptions.
I have read both bills and find them not only onerous but discriminatory. They are clearly anti-bicycle. I am happy to vote against whichever member signs onto either of these bills regardless of whether or not they pass. For those members of council I can’t vote against I’m happy to contribute to the campaign of their opponent. If either of these bills pass I am also prepared to donate generously to the first lawsuit brought against the city related to these bills – and their will be lawsuits.
On behalf of myself and the 100,000 other bicyclists in this city I strongly encourage you to vote against the anti-bicycling bills presented by Councilman DiCicco and Councilman Kenney.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Maybe these laws are being presented to put a little “fear” into bicyclists… just to get many people on bikes to pay more attention to their surroundings.
It seems that many bicyclists don’t pay attention to many traffic laws… personally, I would feel horrible if I hit someone on a bike with my car whether it was my “fault” or not… and I’m sure my insurance company wouldn’t really appreciate it either.
I’ve known quite a few people on bikes who have gotten hit by a car in the city, and (and this is the total truth), every time I ask them to describe what happen when the accident occurred, they bicyclists ALWAYS were breaking some sort of law or making an illegal turn etc etc.
Riding a bike, even though it is environmentally acceptable, politically correct, etc etc doesn’t give anyone the right to dismiss the rules of the road… and let’s not forget of course, and many of philebrity readers know this to be true, it’s also a fashion statement… but getting run over due to not paying attention.?.. not so fashionable… but, then the bicyclists lawsuit to the drivers insurance company.?.. quite fashionable indeed.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
@groundlifter
They can and will arrest you. I’ve known people it’s happened to. Your argument that they can’t arrest you because you’re not driving a car and therefor not required to carry a license it ridiculous. Imagine committing any crime, any crime in the world, on foot or bike and telling the arresting officer you don’t have ID. What do you think happens everyday when this occurs? Do you think they let everyone who doesn’t have ID go? C’mon son.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
@groundlifter: I was thinking the same thing. Just duck down a one-way…what’s a squad car gonna do? My bike license plate only says “RYAN”…
November 20th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
@Ryan Vernon
yea i’d like to see a fat-ass bike cop catch me.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
@Ryan, go for it. Fleeing law enforcement is a crime in itself, and one where I hear “the gloves come off” when they catch up with you. Maybe you’d get away, but it’s coin toss between that happening and someone with a bad day or doesn’t truck with your contempt on principle.
Looks like most of this enforcement’s going to be handled by bike cops anyway, I’ve seen bike cops chase down cars in this city on a couple of occasions. You DO NOT want to deal with someone you pissed off packing an exercise-induced adrenaline rush.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
@Ryan Vernon & lightonfire
Fair enough that one may be able to escape a cop car or bike cop, but what if you tried and failed? I’m not sure what the penalties are for fleeing an arresting officer, but I bet they make the ones above look pretty awesome.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Dear Pinheads
I know in all your left wing Utopian fantasies, everyone is forced to bicycle everywhere like the fucking Chinese. The problem with left wing fantasies is that they all degenerate into reality. All of liberalism eventually deteriorates into a police state. Take a peek at China, Cuba, Venezuela or the former Soviet Union.
Enjoy your loss of personal freedom and have fun with the rising police state put in place to enforce compliance with your Utopia. I hope you are looking forward to government run health care and home searches to force global warming compliance.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
@Black jack: I’d definitely roll the dice on that. Pretty sure I could outrun one of those goofball police Treks. Just wondering the range and accuracy of the taser…
November 20th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
@expat: I’m not sure what the penalties are for fleeing an arresting officer either, but I bet the officer could be doing something more important.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
I can’t believe we really have to sit there at red lights like total jackasses waiting for the signal to turn green, even when there are no cars around. I got a holler today, for “coasting” through a red, even though I did stop and look, and there were no cars. I say holler, because i just kept on going.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
YEA! jburnside weighed in. End thread, pinheads!
November 20th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
I can’t believe burnie just chimed in on this post. Bro only comments when it has something to do with Obama. Must be getting bored in his mom’s basment.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
he must think that only liberals ride bikes. or only liberals break the law.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
@Ryan Vernon. I wouldnt worry too much about the tasers being that only supervisors are allowed to carry them in Philly. and if you see a supervisor riding a bike, let me know! hahaha
all this being said, the thing that really pisses me off is people riding on the sidewalk. it IS illegal and fucking stupid. i came really close to punching some dickhole biker last night as he came within inches of hitting me. if he hit me, i would have knocked him on his ass and thrown him into the street where he belongs. fuck you. get tickets and fines out the ass, i dont give a SHIT.
im ALL for riding bikes, but im all for riding bikes safely. i understand that we all hafta look out for asshole cabbies, etc. and that the focus shouldnt really be all on the riders.
so reactionary and borderline embarrassing!
November 20th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Pretty sure the vampires in True Blood are rich because they have been accumulating interest over their 600+ year lifetimes
November 20th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Cannot wait for some action video of actual cyclists toying with cops that happen to be on bikes — I know a few of the cops got skills, but that will just keep it interesting. Think about it, a bike cop hanging out sees a cyclist doing 20+mph blow a light – he’s gonna need a motor to catch that.
@Talliver – point being, he did not hit you;) unfortunately some riders got no skill, and some pedestrian got no clue(not implying you cause I do not know you) — so many times I have had a nice clean line around a ped (street & sidewalk) and the ped sees me, panics, and steps right into my line! Bottom line, if I hit a ped its my fault, but in my 44 years on a bike it has not happened
Peace
November 21st, 2009 at 12:51 am
If the laws for pedestrians and motorists are enforced with equal emphasis then I would be OK with it, even though it would add about 4 blocks to my bike commute if I can no longer go the wrong way down my own street for half a block.
Many times pedestrians will cross against a red light even when they know a cyclist with the right-of-way is approaching. A fine of $119.50 seems about right for that. And peds are easier for cops to chase down too.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:20 pm
How about investigating the PPA. A private corporation that carries out the duties of the state. Let’s ask what their 50 million dollar reserve account is for. Let’s ask why PPA fines don’t go into fixing problems in Philadelphia.
American society is reactive. We wait for something bad to happen then we react to it. It’s the year 2009 and we continue to abuse horses by having them cart around tourists. Put a metal pipe in your mouth for a day and try to carry out your daily duties. We have f’ing cars. You have two legs, try using those a-hole.
So someone died from a biker. I’m 100% sure it was an accident. Let’s increase fines by 500% on cabbies too. They cause more accidents.
Legislators like written letters. If everyone who bikes writes a letter to Mayor Nutter expressing the absurdity of this fine increase he will have to react.
They don’t care about protestors or vigils or rallies. Write a letter. Print it out and mail it in.
Just like those “crazy” people in rittenhouse hold those stickers. “quit bitching and start a revolution”
utilize the system we have in place.
November 21st, 2009 at 10:51 pm
@djdeejay
I was hit on South Street by a driver who raced past me, rather than waiting until it was safe to pass. We were on a one way street, with cars parked down both sides, and I was as close to the right of the lane as I could be. She stopped because she knocked me off my bike…then she hugged me. Do you think she would have hugged someone if it was a two car accident, rather than a car and bike accident? I told her she messed up my bike (several parts were broken), and she said “I don’t care about your bike, I care that you aren’t hurt”. And then she got in her car and drove away. I noted her license plate number, walked the block home and called the police, who informed me that because I walked a block home the accident couldn’t be pursued. I think it is unfair to characterize all accidents involving bikes as the biker’s fault. Speaking of fault, does anyone know who was in the wrong for the two recent biker/pedestrian deaths? I didn’t read if the bikers were running lights, if pedestrians were jaywalks, etc.