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> <channel><title>Comments on: SEPTA Strike To Arrive Right Around The Same Time As The Yankees</title> <atom:link href="http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/</link> <description>philly&#039;s longest-standing cityblog</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 02:04:06 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator> <item><title>By: coochtrain</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-15499</link> <dc:creator>coochtrain</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 03:56:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=28089#comment-15499</guid> <description>I&#039;ve been pro-union my whole life, but almost every time I ride SEPTA, the experience forces me to pray that they all get fired. And then I tell the driver/ticket-agent that I pray for them to get fired. My fondest wish: the Phillies win the World Series the same month that Philly pushes ctr-alt-del on that union of slacktards. They should put it to a vote!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been pro-union my whole life, but almost every time I ride SEPTA, the experience forces me to pray that they all get fired. And then I tell the driver/ticket-agent that I pray for them to get fired. My fondest wish: the Phillies win the World Series the same month that Philly pushes ctr-alt-del on that union of slacktards. They should put it to a vote!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: John Lightstone</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-15454</link> <dc:creator>John Lightstone</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:59:43 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=28089#comment-15454</guid> <description>small potatoes: I only posted because I thought that it was interesting that someone was using Detroit as a positive example of unions, while many people have cited the UAW as one (not the reason, not the main, but a significant factor) in the failure of GM and Chrysler.I think that unions have done a commendable job of raising the living standards of American workers, especially in the early days of modern american capitalism when they had almsot know protection (plus striking mine workers are just some damn romantic and make for great folk songs).  At the same time, many unions have gradually become corrupt institutions (mob ties!) which exist more for the betterment of the union leaders and their personal gain and political agendas than for the betterment of the workers.  They also serve to further the interests of entrenched existing workers over the interest of new entrants to the labor force (particularly minorities and imigrants).As an example, years ago, I worked tangentially on a deal where a European steel company was going to invest $1 billion in am American steel plant to turn it into a world class railmaking facility.  The deal cratered because the union wouldn&#039;t accept changes in work rules and pay which would have made the workforce more flexible and rewarded better performance with increased pay.  The union said that they&#039;d rather see the plant close than make any concession.  The investment never happened, and the plant has been closed for years.Not all unions are like that, but they certainly haven&#039;t been the unblemished force for good that some of the commentors have made them out to be.  Walk around North Philly and see all the factories which have left.  Not all the fault of unions, but they certainly had a role.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>small potatoes: I only posted because I thought that it was interesting that someone was using Detroit as a positive example of unions, while many people have cited the UAW as one (not the reason, not the main, but a significant factor) in the failure of GM and Chrysler.</p><p>I think that unions have done a commendable job of raising the living standards of American workers, especially in the early days of modern american capitalism when they had almsot know protection (plus striking mine workers are just some damn romantic and make for great folk songs).  At the same time, many unions have gradually become corrupt institutions (mob ties!) which exist more for the betterment of the union leaders and their personal gain and political agendas than for the betterment of the workers.  They also serve to further the interests of entrenched existing workers over the interest of new entrants to the labor force (particularly minorities and imigrants).</p><p>As an example, years ago, I worked tangentially on a deal where a European steel company was going to invest $1 billion in am American steel plant to turn it into a world class railmaking facility.  The deal cratered because the union wouldn&#8217;t accept changes in work rules and pay which would have made the workforce more flexible and rewarded better performance with increased pay.  The union said that they&#8217;d rather see the plant close than make any concession.  The investment never happened, and the plant has been closed for years.</p><p>Not all unions are like that, but they certainly haven&#8217;t been the unblemished force for good that some of the commentors have made them out to be.  Walk around North Philly and see all the factories which have left.  Not all the fault of unions, but they certainly had a role.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: small potatoes</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-15448</link> <dc:creator>small potatoes</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:00:49 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=28089#comment-15448</guid> <description>@ barry &amp; lightstone
I don&#039;t know that we&#039;re on opposite sides at the heart of this, but I don&#039;t think it&#039;s correct to pin the blame on an unrestricted union role.  Unions are explicitly authorized as an antitrust exception.  Their privileges are expressly controlled by law.  I think we would all prefer that their approach was different.  It would be nice for all if unions chose to protect the rights of the average hard working employee, rather than those of the weakest and laziest worker.  Yet the union reps and their platform are selected by union members.  They&#039;re the ones who will have to live with whatever deal their leaders craft.  My point was (an attempt) to suggest that we focus our shared energies on reforming the labor market in a way that rewards hard work without providing inordinate benefits to those who don&#039;t deserve it, whether they be corporate management OR labor leaders.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ barry &amp; lightstone<br
/> I don&#8217;t know that we&#8217;re on opposite sides at the heart of this, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s correct to pin the blame on an unrestricted union role.  Unions are explicitly authorized as an antitrust exception.  Their privileges are expressly controlled by law.  I think we would all prefer that their approach was different.  It would be nice for all if unions chose to protect the rights of the average hard working employee, rather than those of the weakest and laziest worker.  Yet the union reps and their platform are selected by union members.  They&#8217;re the ones who will have to live with whatever deal their leaders craft.  My point was (an attempt) to suggest that we focus our shared energies on reforming the labor market in a way that rewards hard work without providing inordinate benefits to those who don&#8217;t deserve it, whether they be corporate management OR labor leaders.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: A Feculent Rainbow</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-15444</link> <dc:creator>A Feculent Rainbow</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:29:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=28089#comment-15444</guid> <description>@ Barry: oops! you said American car market - not world.  My bad.  I think my points still stand as I was always arguing world market.On an semi-related topic, I would also like to note it&#039;s hard for ANYONE to compete with the Chinese and their slave labor conditions and therefore, comparison to Chinese manufacturing in general is inherently dishonest.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Barry: oops! you said American car market &#8211; not world.  My bad.  I think my points still stand as I was always arguing world market.</p><p>On an semi-related topic, I would also like to note it&#8217;s hard for ANYONE to compete with the Chinese and their slave labor conditions and therefore, comparison to Chinese manufacturing in general is inherently dishonest.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: A Feculent Rainbow</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-15443</link> <dc:creator>A Feculent Rainbow</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:19:48 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=28089#comment-15443</guid> <description>&quot;You think a person deserves $55k a year for sitting in a booth and telling you they don’t have change? Come on. The complacent attitude has to go.&quot;To be fair, that is SEPTA policy.  Still they don&#039;t need to be rude assholes about it and certainly don&#039;t deserve 4% raises each year while working in a permanent-deficit-subsidized-by-taxpayers operation like SEPTA.  Though TWU sickens me, I still value Unions in general (they just need pragmatic and responsible leaders that keep things fair given the greater economic context).</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You think a person deserves $55k a year for sitting in a booth and telling you they don’t have change? Come on. The complacent attitude has to go.&#8221;</p><p>To be fair, that is SEPTA policy.  Still they don&#8217;t need to be rude assholes about it and certainly don&#8217;t deserve 4% raises each year while working in a permanent-deficit-subsidized-by-taxpayers operation like SEPTA.  Though TWU sickens me, I still value Unions in general (they just need pragmatic and responsible leaders that keep things fair given the greater economic context).</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: A Feculent Rainbow</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-15442</link> <dc:creator>A Feculent Rainbow</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:15:30 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=28089#comment-15442</guid> <description>@ Barry: we&#039;re both wrong.  Europe took the lead for September but China will likely win for 2009.http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/world-auto-sales-chart-europe-and-china-fighting-tooth-and-nail-for-top-spot-1803396.htmlTrue, you could argue that Japan is making a killing per capita.RE Japanese producing in the US, you may be interested in an old Time piece about why US-manufactured &quot;import cars&quot; are doing better than the US Auto:&quot;The stock explanation for this situation is that the foreign makers pay their U.S. workers less in wages and benefits than do the Big Three. But that answer is wrong; the compensation is roughly equivalent. The real reasons for the transplants&#039; success are much more interesting and instructive: more efficient manufacturing systems, better labor relations, more collaborative relationships with suppliers, lower &quot;legacy&quot; costs for retirees&#039; pensions and health benefits, and hard-earned reputations for quality.&quot;more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,451002,00.htmlObviously, I will cede the retiree benefit costs insofar that Japanese manufacturers have been here for less time and have accrued less retirees on their dole.  Again, UAW is not guilt-free, but certainly do not deserve anywhere near the lionshare of the blame as they often do...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Barry: we&#8217;re both wrong.  Europe took the lead for September but China will likely win for 2009.</p><p><a
href="http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/world-auto-sales-chart-europe-and-china-fighting-tooth-and-nail-for-top-spot-1803396.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/world-auto-sales-chart-europe-and-china-fighting-tooth-and-nail-for-top-spot-1803396.html</a></p><p>True, you could argue that Japan is making a killing per capita.</p><p>RE Japanese producing in the US, you may be interested in an old Time piece about why US-manufactured &#8220;import cars&#8221; are doing better than the US Auto:</p><p>&#8220;The stock explanation for this situation is that the foreign makers pay their U.S. workers less in wages and benefits than do the Big Three. But that answer is wrong; the compensation is roughly equivalent. The real reasons for the transplants&#8217; success are much more interesting and instructive: more efficient manufacturing systems, better labor relations, more collaborative relationships with suppliers, lower &#8220;legacy&#8221; costs for retirees&#8217; pensions and health benefits, and hard-earned reputations for quality.&#8221;</p><p>more: <a
href="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,451002,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,451002,00.html</a></p><p>Obviously, I will cede the retiree benefit costs insofar that Japanese manufacturers have been here for less time and have accrued less retirees on their dole.  Again, UAW is not guilt-free, but certainly do not deserve anywhere near the lionshare of the blame as they often do&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: dbritt</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-15441</link> <dc:creator>dbritt</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:10:33 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=28089#comment-15441</guid> <description>@milklineVery well said.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@milkline</p><p>Very well said.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: milkline</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-15440</link> <dc:creator>milkline</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:02:08 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=28089#comment-15440</guid> <description>I agree with barryg.  The SEPTA unions have gotten wildly out of control.  This is entirely unlike the teachers&#039; union, which needs to band together to get more money, as the education system is not inherrantly lucrative; There is no money coming in the way you&#039;d see in a typical business.
In the case of SEPTA, there IS money coming in as people pay to ride, but the workers need to band together because they are just so unskilled.  Anybody with an ass to sit on could do a lot of SEPTA jobs (also unlike teaching), so there&#039;s no reason besides threat of strike that SEPTA should listen to their employees when they demand better benefits than most skilled laborers.  In order to keep some livable salary, they&#039;ve unionized, but have gotten greedy.
Let&#039;s quit cheerleading for whatever &quot;side&quot; we think we should be on, be it anti- or pro- union, not get carried away by extrapolating comparisons to auto manufacturing, and look at what&#039;s going on here: opportunist douchebaggotry.  A bunch of idiots who could (should?) be replaced by vending machines are trying to cash in on a baseball game, simply because they think they can.
You think a person deserves $55k a year for sitting in a booth and telling you they don&#039;t have change?  Come on.  The complacent attitude has to go.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with barryg.  The SEPTA unions have gotten wildly out of control.  This is entirely unlike the teachers&#8217; union, which needs to band together to get more money, as the education system is not inherrantly lucrative; There is no money coming in the way you&#8217;d see in a typical business.<br
/> In the case of SEPTA, there IS money coming in as people pay to ride, but the workers need to band together because they are just so unskilled.  Anybody with an ass to sit on could do a lot of SEPTA jobs (also unlike teaching), so there&#8217;s no reason besides threat of strike that SEPTA should listen to their employees when they demand better benefits than most skilled laborers.  In order to keep some livable salary, they&#8217;ve unionized, but have gotten greedy.<br
/> Let&#8217;s quit cheerleading for whatever &#8220;side&#8221; we think we should be on, be it anti- or pro- union, not get carried away by extrapolating comparisons to auto manufacturing, and look at what&#8217;s going on here: opportunist douchebaggotry.  A bunch of idiots who could (should?) be replaced by vending machines are trying to cash in on a baseball game, simply because they think they can.<br
/> You think a person deserves $55k a year for sitting in a booth and telling you they don&#8217;t have change?  Come on.  The complacent attitude has to go.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: John Lightstone</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-15439</link> <dc:creator>John Lightstone</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:51:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=28089#comment-15439</guid> <description>I think barryg explained the points I was trying to make better than I did, so I&#039;ll leave it at that.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think barryg explained the points I was trying to make better than I did, so I&#8217;ll leave it at that.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Allan Smithee</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/10/26/septa-strike-to-arrive-right-around-the-same-time-as-the-yankees/comment-page-1/#comment-15438</link> <dc:creator>Allan Smithee</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:44:36 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=28089#comment-15438</guid> <description>re: What we should examine is the increase in executive compensation over the same time period. Is it crazy to suggest that’s where the $ is going and where greater efficiencies should be realized?So true.Unless you read today&#039;s headlines. The insurance companies are now claiming they barely make a profit (though I think their executive barely mention that profits have soared 400% percent since 2001 when premiums of consumers doubled.)^Corporate America is evil.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: What we should examine is the increase in executive compensation over the same time period. Is it crazy to suggest that’s where the $ is going and where greater efficiencies should be realized?</p><p>So true.</p><p>Unless you read today&#8217;s headlines. The insurance companies are now claiming they barely make a profit (though I think their executive barely mention that profits have soared 400% percent since 2001 when premiums of consumers doubled.)</p><p>^Corporate America is evil.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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