SEPTA Strike To Arrive Right Around The Same Time As The Yankees
Just look at this beautiful sentence: “Union leadership says the strike vote coming the same week as a World Series game here in the city is just a coincidence.” Uh, whatever, SEPTA. Because even though Transport Workers Union 234 has been working without a contract since March, now they decide They’ve Had All They Can Stand And They Can’t Stand No More. As if. How sweet would it be if ALL OF SEPTA got fired? I know it’s just a dream, I know I’m just punchy ‘cos I need more sleep, but how sweet would it be?
October 26th, 2009 at 11:21 am
That has been a fantasy of mine for years. Of course, the SEPTA union is far from the only reason why we can’t have nice things, but they sure don’t help.
October 26th, 2009 at 11:50 am
I would stab a puppy in the face if it meant all of SEPTA would be fired.
Slash and burn!
October 26th, 2009 at 11:54 am
My 15 trolley ride was pleasant this morning disregarding my hangover.
October 26th, 2009 at 11:57 am
I’m pro-union and i take septa everyday. Fuck you and your lexus.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
I ride a bicycle.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Yeah, seriously, who’s riding in a Lexus? I ain’t even got a goddamned driver’s license.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
don’t you joyride at the tropicana?
October 26th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
i’m just sayin it’d make things a lot harder to get to my job in the burbs everyday without septa.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
@lightonfire: Do you believe every advertorial you read?
October 26th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
i was kidding about the lexus/tropicana joyride. i’m a sarcastic fellow. i am pro-union tho.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
I’m pro-union in a fair wages, no kids in the mines sort of way. Philly unions tend to stretch that just a bit.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
There’s a good peice on the Transit Workers’ Union in last week’s Philly Weekly. Injured on the job as a bus driver? Need something even more sedentary? How ’bout “working” as a “cashier” on the El?
http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/SEPTAs-Loco-motion.html
You’ll keep your $55,000 salary but won’t have even as much responsibility as the kid working the counter at Arby’s.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
@lightonfire:
Would you be pro-union if your taxes increased at an annual rate to cover SEPTA workers’ annual salary increases and their 99% subsidized medical insurance payments? What if you were part of the 10+% of the population that is currently unemployed? Or the 90% that has a no pension benefits or a 401(k) (surely worth less than the El cashier’s pension after Great Depression 2.0)? Or the many that have no health insurance or pay a large portion of the cost?
We are in tough economic shit and everyone is making sacrifices–except the city and state union workers that seem to be on a mission to bankrupt us all. Or at least close our libraries and halve our trash pickup. Fire ‘em and start over.
October 26th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
@barryg: if you grew up outside of detroit like i did (and where my parents still reside) you’d know how important those union jobs were to the region. the economic shit we have in philly is nothing compared to the 25%+ unemployment rate of that area. want to get rid of union workers? why not move all the union jobs to mexico like the auto industry did! those union jobs were key to the economic survival of an entire state which is now in complete disarray.
those septa workers with no responsibility deserve the money they make. just because they didn’t go to college (some of them may have) doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to make a decent wage as well. they aren’t the reason for this recession… the educated wall street folk with their MBAs are.
October 26th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Though I still believe in significance of Unions in general, FUCK SEPTA.
October 26th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
@lightonfire
You can’t ship public transit jobs to Mexico.
And I dispute the fact that SEPTA drivers deserve more job protection, benefits, and wage increases than every other worker (except for civil servants and teachers, ahem) in the city. Especially when I (and everyone else who doesn’t have it so good) is footing the bill. *We* are paying for this, not some faceless corporation, and *we* are running out of money. With so many blue collar workers (including ones in unionized industries that are not subsidized by the taxpayer) working reduced hours or getting laid off, it is irresponsible and insulting to hear these guys ask for raises and cry about paying for their own health insurance and pension benefits.
Try again without the strawman, dawg.
October 26th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
“those septa workers with no responsibility deserve the money they make.”
Not gonna win any arguments with lines like that, Light. No argument on Goldman Sachs (AKA Obama’s economic advisers/cabinet) and the like putting us in the shitter. However….
As SEPTA is necessary service provided in large by federal/state/city subsidization, they should only strike in extreme cases where they can actually garner public support – like police and fireman. Instead, they opportunistically seize upon the World Series to extort phat conditions when the rest of the world is suffering; especially a significant portion of their ridership.
FUCK SEPTA and similar mobs that give Unions a bad name.
October 26th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Wow! That escalated quickly!
I respect and totally understand why some folks take SEPTA. I’d been using it since I was middle school (late 80s) until I noticed that the customer service seemed to get increasingly worse with each fare hike. I don’t love it but I prefer to bike 8 miles each way to work than to give such a broken and limited system another penny from my uninsured wallet.
October 26th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
“want to get rid of union workers? why not move all the union jobs to mexico like the auto industry did!”
Of course, the UAW had nothing to do with the American auto industry becoming uncompetitive. Nothing at all.
October 26th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Oh, and eff SEPTA.
October 26th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
the union workers don’t design the gas guzzling pieces of shit…they just assemble them. non-union workers who make much more money than they do design them. uncompetitively. with big oil company profits in mind.
i’m not glorifying ford/gm/chrysler: theyre shit companies that deserve to fail for making poor business decisions. i do feel for the millions of people that have lost or will lose their jobs – some being the only jobs they’ve ever known – because rich fucks who will still be rich even when their companies fail make bad decisions ruining their lives.
October 26th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
@light
Have you ever wondered how much less an American car would cost if the labor unions didn’t artificially drive up Ford/GM/Chrysler prices?
I bet you a new Toyota Camry that your parent’s town would be in much better shape.
October 26th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Some would argue that the auto companies over-reliance on SUVs and trucks was because of high union costs (including retirement benefits to retired workers) which prevented them from making money on smaller, fuel efficient cars. The high labor costs also sucked money from investment in innovative products. Plus the big gas hogs are what americans wanted to drive; every other automaker in the world added large SUVs, from Toyota to Lexus to BMW to Porsche to compete in the US market.
The union also was never serious about negotiating concessions to help the auto companies become more competitive until it was too late and they were already on the verge of bankruptcy.
There’s lots of blame on all sides for the auto industries problems in the US. But almost every article I’ve seen assigns the UAW at least a share of the blame.
October 26th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
re: Have you ever wondered how much less an American car would cost if the labor unions didn’t artificially drive up Ford/GM/Chrysler prices? I bet you a new Toyota Camry that your parent’s town would be in much better shape.
Not if they live in union-less Mississippi.
October 26th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
I drive a neon. i’m certainly not driving, nor desire to ever drive, a lexus. in fact, quite the opposite. i love the idea of public trans, and i make a good living. it’s a shame for anyone in any position, to think they deserve a yearly raise, regardless of performance compensation. how many people in this economy are happy to even have jobs? how many people have worked harder than ever knowing that they weren’t getting a raise no matter what they did. I’m not against guaranteeing jobs, but christ, earn your keep like everyone else. how anyone can think they are entitled to something for nothing is amazing. give raises to those who earn them, screw the rest of you who just skate by because the world owes you a living.
October 26th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
related:
Didn’t know that the anti-union National Right To Work Committee icon is the Liberty Bell though its headquarters is based in Virginia.
October 26th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
The costs of union labor caused American car companies to make SUVs? That’s a ridiculous suggestion. Ford/GM/Chrysler are for-profit corporations, and SUVs were the products that were selling and giving manufacturers the most $.
Is it possible that we could suggest reforming unions rather than simply bad mouthing them as institutions? Organized labor has been the only proven method of effectively increasing the wages of the average worker. Including inflation, the wages of the average American worker have steadily dropped since the early 1970’s. During the same time, union participation has plummeted, especially in the non-government sector.
I’m sure there are things that we probably agree on, such as SEPTA employees being pretty rude & unhelpful, or how offensive it is to see their union obviously exploiting the Phillies’ current success. But we can say that without sounding like Ronald Reagan.
October 26th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
I don’t have the time to track them down, but high labor costs were often cited as a reason why American auto companies weren’t competitive in building small, economical cars, because the profit margin on those cars were high enough to support higher labor costs. Not riduculous. Open to debate, but not ridiculous.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
I’ve worked on the assembly line at GM. It’s hellish, mind-numbingly repetitive work that requires great physical effort and attention to detail (mistakes = death/lawsuits). I’m not saying UAW hasn’t been greedy from time to time – but it’s easy for them act as that way when the upper management makes such disgusting sums of cash and it’s apparent that the wealth is not being spread evenly in a private industry. My main gripe with the local UAW was their nepotistic protectionism when so many minority “part timers” (in that they worked 35+ but did not receive full status and the associated benefits) were being shafted by management. Still, I can’t claim to know the whole story behind that as it was plant that often had downtime/temporary-unemployment.
RE gas. Gas guzzlers were in no way an issue until the last 2 years. Though I prefer Subaru (well, I would if I drove) I do respect American cars far more than shit like Hyundai and the likes. It would seem that European auto-manufacturers are ruling the market these days. What do the Euro companies have in common? NATIONAL HEALTH CARE. I would wager that the bills that broke the industry’s backs came from gratuitous compensation at the management level; gratuitous advertising and bloated health care costs (both during employment and while pensioned). Call it a hunch…
October 26th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
From The Economist:
”
Still, GM was doing well enough after the second world war to accede to the deals with the UAW that, much later, were to become an insupportable burden. It agreed in 1948 to annual cost-of-living pay increases and in 1950 to free health-care coverage for life and generous pensions. With hardly any foreign competition in America and its main Detroit rivals, Chrysler and Ford, forced to offer their workers similarly gold-plated benefits, GM’s sheer scale masked any inefficiencies…[By the 21st Century] every year the cost of retired workers’ health care diverted billions of dollars from developing new models and added $1,400 to the cost of each car compared with those made in Asian and European transplants.
”
I’d link to the article but it is subscribers only. “A Giant Falls,” Jun 4th 2009.
There are MANY reasons why GM failed. Union-mandated costs are ONE reason. This article is a really good postmortem of the whole situation.
One reason they cite as to why the US car companies were so dependent on SUV and light truck sales is that these vehicles were subject to much laxer fuel efficiency standards than passenger cars (SUVs are classified as light trucks under CAFE), allowing them to avoid investing R&D into better fuel efficiency and improving small cars. You can blame Congress for that perverse incentive, which meshed well with Americans’ desire for big toys.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Cited by whom? I don’t mean to be hyper-critical, Mr. Lightstone. It’s just troubling to see that the notion of an unrestricted free market solving our collective troubles maintains widespread credibility, despite evidence to the contrary.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
@Rainbow,
The Japs rule America’s car market, not the Europeans. Same difference tho about the healthcare. And they do make many of the cars here, but the workers are either non-unionized or not promised butlers wiping their asses for life.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
re: but the workers are either non-unionized or not promised butlers wiping their asses for life.
I’m surprised about that statement. I thought corporate America loved outsourcing.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
@potatoes,
I don’t know if anyone is arguing for an unrestricted free market, but it is very apparent that unrestricted Union power is ultimately self-destructive. I am not anti-Union as a general principle but many Unions have gotten way to powerful and sap their hosts dry. And this is way worse in the public sector (eg, SEPTA and TWU, our original profit) where the employer cannot tell the workers they are going to go out of business and everyone will lose their jobs if they don’t make some concessions.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
@Allan,
It is expensive to ship cars overseas and there are tariffs levied. Many of the parts in US-made vehicles are made overseas (including most engines, I think) so it is more accurate to say that the cars are assembled here.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
@barryg
Also, American cars aren’t very popular overseas because the steering wheel is on the wrong side in many foreign countries.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
@ barryg
I would strongly dispute idea that Union power has gotten too strong (based on wage statistics), but I would certainly agree that they’re making some bad decisions when it comes to winning public opinion. I think part of the problem is that we’re comparing the wages of the union employee to that of the non-union employee. I know that such a comparison is direct, but why make the open shop employee the norm? They are getting screwed even worse than the union employee! What we should examine is the increase in executive compensation over the same time period. Is it crazy to suggest that’s where the $ is going and where greater efficiencies should be realized?
October 26th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
re: What we should examine is the increase in executive compensation over the same time period. Is it crazy to suggest that’s where the $ is going and where greater efficiencies should be realized?
So true.
Unless you read today’s headlines. The insurance companies are now claiming they barely make a profit (though I think their executive barely mention that profits have soared 400% percent since 2001 when premiums of consumers doubled.)
^Corporate America is evil.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
I think barryg explained the points I was trying to make better than I did, so I’ll leave it at that.
October 26th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
I agree with barryg. The SEPTA unions have gotten wildly out of control. This is entirely unlike the teachers’ union, which needs to band together to get more money, as the education system is not inherrantly lucrative; There is no money coming in the way you’d see in a typical business.
In the case of SEPTA, there IS money coming in as people pay to ride, but the workers need to band together because they are just so unskilled. Anybody with an ass to sit on could do a lot of SEPTA jobs (also unlike teaching), so there’s no reason besides threat of strike that SEPTA should listen to their employees when they demand better benefits than most skilled laborers. In order to keep some livable salary, they’ve unionized, but have gotten greedy.
Let’s quit cheerleading for whatever “side” we think we should be on, be it anti- or pro- union, not get carried away by extrapolating comparisons to auto manufacturing, and look at what’s going on here: opportunist douchebaggotry. A bunch of idiots who could (should?) be replaced by vending machines are trying to cash in on a baseball game, simply because they think they can.
You think a person deserves $55k a year for sitting in a booth and telling you they don’t have change? Come on. The complacent attitude has to go.
October 26th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
@milkline
Very well said.
October 26th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
@ Barry: we’re both wrong. Europe took the lead for September but China will likely win for 2009.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/world-auto-sales-chart-europe-and-china-fighting-tooth-and-nail-for-top-spot-1803396.html
True, you could argue that Japan is making a killing per capita.
RE Japanese producing in the US, you may be interested in an old Time piece about why US-manufactured “import cars” are doing better than the US Auto:
“The stock explanation for this situation is that the foreign makers pay their U.S. workers less in wages and benefits than do the Big Three. But that answer is wrong; the compensation is roughly equivalent. The real reasons for the transplants’ success are much more interesting and instructive: more efficient manufacturing systems, better labor relations, more collaborative relationships with suppliers, lower “legacy” costs for retirees’ pensions and health benefits, and hard-earned reputations for quality.”
more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,451002,00.html
Obviously, I will cede the retiree benefit costs insofar that Japanese manufacturers have been here for less time and have accrued less retirees on their dole. Again, UAW is not guilt-free, but certainly do not deserve anywhere near the lionshare of the blame as they often do…
October 26th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
“You think a person deserves $55k a year for sitting in a booth and telling you they don’t have change? Come on. The complacent attitude has to go.”
To be fair, that is SEPTA policy. Still they don’t need to be rude assholes about it and certainly don’t deserve 4% raises each year while working in a permanent-deficit-subsidized-by-taxpayers operation like SEPTA. Though TWU sickens me, I still value Unions in general (they just need pragmatic and responsible leaders that keep things fair given the greater economic context).
October 26th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
@ Barry: oops! you said American car market – not world. My bad. I think my points still stand as I was always arguing world market.
On an semi-related topic, I would also like to note it’s hard for ANYONE to compete with the Chinese and their slave labor conditions and therefore, comparison to Chinese manufacturing in general is inherently dishonest.
October 26th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
@ barry & lightstone
I don’t know that we’re on opposite sides at the heart of this, but I don’t think it’s correct to pin the blame on an unrestricted union role. Unions are explicitly authorized as an antitrust exception. Their privileges are expressly controlled by law. I think we would all prefer that their approach was different. It would be nice for all if unions chose to protect the rights of the average hard working employee, rather than those of the weakest and laziest worker. Yet the union reps and their platform are selected by union members. They’re the ones who will have to live with whatever deal their leaders craft. My point was (an attempt) to suggest that we focus our shared energies on reforming the labor market in a way that rewards hard work without providing inordinate benefits to those who don’t deserve it, whether they be corporate management OR labor leaders.
October 27th, 2009 at 8:59 am
small potatoes: I only posted because I thought that it was interesting that someone was using Detroit as a positive example of unions, while many people have cited the UAW as one (not the reason, not the main, but a significant factor) in the failure of GM and Chrysler.
I think that unions have done a commendable job of raising the living standards of American workers, especially in the early days of modern american capitalism when they had almsot know protection (plus striking mine workers are just some damn romantic and make for great folk songs). At the same time, many unions have gradually become corrupt institutions (mob ties!) which exist more for the betterment of the union leaders and their personal gain and political agendas than for the betterment of the workers. They also serve to further the interests of entrenched existing workers over the interest of new entrants to the labor force (particularly minorities and imigrants).
As an example, years ago, I worked tangentially on a deal where a European steel company was going to invest $1 billion in am American steel plant to turn it into a world class railmaking facility. The deal cratered because the union wouldn’t accept changes in work rules and pay which would have made the workforce more flexible and rewarded better performance with increased pay. The union said that they’d rather see the plant close than make any concession. The investment never happened, and the plant has been closed for years.
Not all unions are like that, but they certainly haven’t been the unblemished force for good that some of the commentors have made them out to be. Walk around North Philly and see all the factories which have left. Not all the fault of unions, but they certainly had a role.
October 27th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
I’ve been pro-union my whole life, but almost every time I ride SEPTA, the experience forces me to pray that they all get fired. And then I tell the driver/ticket-agent that I pray for them to get fired. My fondest wish: the Phillies win the World Series the same month that Philly pushes ctr-alt-del on that union of slacktards. They should put it to a vote!