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> <channel><title>Comments on: Call And Response: Head Of The The Anti-Casino Movement Doesn&#8217;t Wanna Hear It</title> <atom:link href="http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/</link> <description>philly&#039;s longest-standing cityblog</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 02:04:06 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator> <item><title>By: fishytown</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14697</link> <dc:creator>fishytown</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 00:56:29 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=27162#comment-14697</guid> <description>Mr. Sweeney said in his original post that &quot;Fishtown is fucked&quot;...but I&#039;m believe there are more N. Liberties residents living within a 1/2 mile of SugarHouse than Fishtown residents.  Am I right or wrong?I have never understood the idea that SugarHouse is a &quot;Fishtown&quot; casino.  Somehow Fishtown owns the decisions, jobs, and overall impact because SugarHouse is located just inside and on the Fishtown/NoLibs border of Frankford Avenue (at Delaware Avnenue).  Absurd.As for motivating &quot;Joe Sixpack&quot; types in Fishtown...Sweeney should know that old-school Fishtown only gets super-motivated for keeping one thing out of Fishtown:  minorities.If 90% (my guesstimate) of NoLibs residents are against casinos and 50% of Fishtowners are....that&#039;s pretty overwhelmingly anti in the immediate area.However, SugarHouse was smart indentifying itself as a &quot;Fishtown casino&quot;.  NoLibs is a much glitzier address than Fishtown - and on the surface it seems odd SugarHouse would identify itself as a ishtown casino.However, this was a savvy move.  SugarHouse knew it could never form a viable splinter group out of the NLNA - there would be no support for a splinter group.  By calling itself a Fishtown casino - SugarHouse knew it could easily divide the FNA and perpetuate their myth that Fishtown is, in FACT&#039;s words, that Fishtown is &quot;overwhlemingly in support of SugarHouse&quot;.FACT lays claim to 700 pro-SugarHouse ribbons to back up the claim.  However, on my block, I had a LONG vacant rental property with a ribbon on it.  Walking around Fishtown, that # never seemed legit.Sad all around...Fishtown was the lower middle class suckers these casino execs were looking to sucker.  I mean, does anyone REALLY believe that SugarHouse CARES about the residents of Fishtown?  These guys are nothing but the legalized mob.  They&#039;re not in the &#039;helping&#039; business.  They&#039;re in the money-making business.Time will tell the tell.  Only in Philly could significant increases in traffic, drunk driving, property crime and pollution be ok.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Sweeney said in his original post that &#8220;Fishtown is fucked&#8221;&#8230;but I&#8217;m believe there are more N. Liberties residents living within a 1/2 mile of SugarHouse than Fishtown residents.  Am I right or wrong?</p><p>I have never understood the idea that SugarHouse is a &#8220;Fishtown&#8221; casino.  Somehow Fishtown owns the decisions, jobs, and overall impact because SugarHouse is located just inside and on the Fishtown/NoLibs border of Frankford Avenue (at Delaware Avnenue).  Absurd.</p><p>As for motivating &#8220;Joe Sixpack&#8221; types in Fishtown&#8230;Sweeney should know that old-school Fishtown only gets super-motivated for keeping one thing out of Fishtown:  minorities.</p><p>If 90% (my guesstimate) of NoLibs residents are against casinos and 50% of Fishtowners are&#8230;.that&#8217;s pretty overwhelmingly anti in the immediate area.</p><p>However, SugarHouse was smart indentifying itself as a &#8220;Fishtown casino&#8221;.  NoLibs is a much glitzier address than Fishtown &#8211; and on the surface it seems odd SugarHouse would identify itself as a ishtown casino.</p><p>However, this was a savvy move.  SugarHouse knew it could never form a viable splinter group out of the NLNA &#8211; there would be no support for a splinter group.  By calling itself a Fishtown casino &#8211; SugarHouse knew it could easily divide the FNA and perpetuate their myth that Fishtown is, in FACT&#8217;s words, that Fishtown is &#8220;overwhlemingly in support of SugarHouse&#8221;.</p><p>FACT lays claim to 700 pro-SugarHouse ribbons to back up the claim.  However, on my block, I had a LONG vacant rental property with a ribbon on it.  Walking around Fishtown, that # never seemed legit.</p><p>Sad all around&#8230;Fishtown was the lower middle class suckers these casino execs were looking to sucker.  I mean, does anyone REALLY believe that SugarHouse CARES about the residents of Fishtown?  These guys are nothing but the legalized mob.  They&#8217;re not in the &#8216;helping&#8217; business.  They&#8217;re in the money-making business.</p><p>Time will tell the tell.  Only in Philly could significant increases in traffic, drunk driving, property crime and pollution be ok.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Nate</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14694</link> <dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 23:45:12 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=27162#comment-14694</guid> <description>I&#039;m inclined to side with Joey. I used to do protest marches and stuff in college, but then I realized that these activist groups do not seem to tolerate criticism or dissent even from people who generally agree with them. Grow a spine already, the efforts to stop the Casino appear to have failed, and as the standard bearers for efforts to stop the Casino, yall in part own that failure. Personally. Thems the breaks.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m inclined to side with Joey. I used to do protest marches and stuff in college, but then I realized that these activist groups do not seem to tolerate criticism or dissent even from people who generally agree with them. Grow a spine already, the efforts to stop the Casino appear to have failed, and as the standard bearers for efforts to stop the Casino, yall in part own that failure. Personally. Thems the breaks.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Patricio</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14689</link> <dc:creator>Patricio</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:12:11 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=27162#comment-14689</guid> <description>Thats the largest protest you&#039;ve seen?!?  You must not get out much, that isn&#039;t even the biggest protest of this week.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thats the largest protest you&#8217;ve seen?!?  You must not get out much, that isn&#8217;t even the biggest protest of this week.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: arcticsplasher</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14688</link> <dc:creator>arcticsplasher</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:40:14 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=27162#comment-14688</guid> <description>Not sure how some of y&#039;all measure a drop in support for CasinoFree, because having 16 people arrested at a 6am workday protest is pretty significant - more arrests than CasinoFree has had in any other protest.  Not to mention the 50 other people standing nearby in a traditional protest makes it the largest protest I&#039;ve seen in Philly ever.And the tired nativist/newcomer argument is moot: CasinoFree has membership in both groups.  Old-timers and newcomers alike hate the casinos, where they are, and how they were imposed on the city.  Defining CasinoFree as a bunch of newcomers is simply repeating a meme the pro-casino forces started.  Go to a meeting if you don&#039;t believe.A more interesting question might be to ask why the pro-casino forces all seem to be lifer Philadelphians?  Why aren&#039;t there many newcomers involved in bringing casinos here?  What&#039;s in it for the lifers?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure how some of y&#8217;all measure a drop in support for CasinoFree, because having 16 people arrested at a 6am workday protest is pretty significant &#8211; more arrests than CasinoFree has had in any other protest.  Not to mention the 50 other people standing nearby in a traditional protest makes it the largest protest I&#8217;ve seen in Philly ever.</p><p>And the tired nativist/newcomer argument is moot: CasinoFree has membership in both groups.  Old-timers and newcomers alike hate the casinos, where they are, and how they were imposed on the city.  Defining CasinoFree as a bunch of newcomers is simply repeating a meme the pro-casino forces started.  Go to a meeting if you don&#8217;t believe.</p><p>A more interesting question might be to ask why the pro-casino forces all seem to be lifer Philadelphians?  Why aren&#8217;t there many newcomers involved in bringing casinos here?  What&#8217;s in it for the lifers?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: C. The Impaler</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14685</link> <dc:creator>C. The Impaler</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:38:34 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=27162#comment-14685</guid> <description>The lure of &quot;jobs&quot; only affected a component of the Philadelphia population that the anti-Casino folks had trouble courting from the getgo because of their culturally tonedeaf attempt at proselytizing to that component.  Otherwise, there are plenty of professional and economic sectors represented by the native and transplant people of Philadelphia, and their numbers shrank too.Frankly, I&#039;ve only seen the anti-CasiNO crowd succeed at making themselves look like victims, with the exception of the photo in this entry where Jethro looks like a real hard man inside the wire and all.   Yes, the crowd has been good at blaming every other factor in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania besides themselves.  The &quot;offensive article&quot; was doing a little mirror holding in asking them if they could&#039;ve done something differently.  That line of inquiry may actually prove fruitful for the future if actually followed instead of deflected by a pissy note from the man inside the wire.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lure of &#8220;jobs&#8221; only affected a component of the Philadelphia population that the anti-Casino folks had trouble courting from the getgo because of their culturally tonedeaf attempt at proselytizing to that component.  Otherwise, there are plenty of professional and economic sectors represented by the native and transplant people of Philadelphia, and their numbers shrank too.</p><p>Frankly, I&#8217;ve only seen the anti-CasiNO crowd succeed at making themselves look like victims, with the exception of the photo in this entry where Jethro looks like a real hard man inside the wire and all.   Yes, the crowd has been good at blaming every other factor in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania besides themselves.  The &#8220;offensive article&#8221; was doing a little mirror holding in asking them if they could&#8217;ve done something differently.  That line of inquiry may actually prove fruitful for the future if actually followed instead of deflected by a pissy note from the man inside the wire.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: philatrash</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14684</link> <dc:creator>philatrash</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:13:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=27162#comment-14684</guid> <description>Forgot to add - they win the populist argument even though the long-term effect may be costlier in terms of addiction and law enforcement.  Populists just don&#039;t think of the long-term in any political argument.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgot to add &#8211; they win the populist argument even though the long-term effect may be costlier in terms of addiction and law enforcement.  Populists just don&#8217;t think of the long-term in any political argument.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: philatrash</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14683</link> <dc:creator>philatrash</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:11:23 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=27162#comment-14683</guid> <description>The support has dropped unfortunately due to one simple and glaring reason: the economy.  People are desperate for jobs - the state and city are hard pressed for revenue.  While morally most people are still opposed to a casino and the shit it brings - the lure of jobs shines far too bright.  The casinos win the populist argument.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The support has dropped unfortunately due to one simple and glaring reason: the economy.  People are desperate for jobs &#8211; the state and city are hard pressed for revenue.  While morally most people are still opposed to a casino and the shit it brings &#8211; the lure of jobs shines far too bright.  The casinos win the populist argument.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: C. The Impaler</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14680</link> <dc:creator>C. The Impaler</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:13:55 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=27162#comment-14680</guid> <description>PaulBoni&#039;s point was well-intended, but it was his misuse of the word &quot;native&quot; in his description of CasiNO as a movement of grassroot native Philadelphians that he fails.  Philatrash, you may get how a newcomer throwing on the &quot;native&quot; badge is a bonermove, Boni and Jethro don&#039;t seem to.  Anyone can look at the diminishing return turnout at each anti-CasiNO event can tell, however &quot;passionate&quot; and &quot;earnest&quot; or even &quot;right&quot; the anti-CasiNO movement may have on its side, the support of the actual people of Philadelphia has slipped dramatically over the past few years.  Despite Philly&#039;s multistoried activist communities, this movement could only pull up 14 people _citywide_ to play mugshot with the Civil Affairs unit?  End of story, literally.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PaulBoni&#8217;s point was well-intended, but it was his misuse of the word &#8220;native&#8221; in his description of CasiNO as a movement of grassroot native Philadelphians that he fails.  Philatrash, you may get how a newcomer throwing on the &#8220;native&#8221; badge is a bonermove, Boni and Jethro don&#8217;t seem to.  Anyone can look at the diminishing return turnout at each anti-CasiNO event can tell, however &#8220;passionate&#8221; and &#8220;earnest&#8221; or even &#8220;right&#8221; the anti-CasiNO movement may have on its side, the support of the actual people of Philadelphia has slipped dramatically over the past few years.  Despite Philly&#8217;s multistoried activist communities, this movement could only pull up 14 people _citywide_ to play mugshot with the Civil Affairs unit?  End of story, literally.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: mogs</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14679</link> <dc:creator>mogs</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:11:08 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=27162#comment-14679</guid> <description>@tips, no one is calling Philebs pro-casino.  We&#039;re just saying maybe you don&#039;t need declare the good guys failures quite so easily.  Casino Free, and all the anti-casino groups (are there others?) have done this city a great service.  Say thank you and back down, man.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tips, no one is calling Philebs pro-casino.  We&#8217;re just saying maybe you don&#8217;t need declare the good guys failures quite so easily.  Casino Free, and all the anti-casino groups (are there others?) have done this city a great service.  Say thank you and back down, man.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: philatrash</title><link>http://www.philebrity.com/2009/09/30/call-and-response-head-of-the-the-anti-casino-movement-doesnt-wanna-hear-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14677</link> <dc:creator>philatrash</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:55:08 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.philebrity.com/?p=27162#comment-14677</guid> <description>Having worked in politics &amp; advocacy for just five years, I&#039;ve seen that &quot;done deals&quot; often can be unraveled with serious citizen power. Casino Free is doing a lot of that, and doing it well.  Casinos suck.That said, the whole Philly native vs. transplant thing is a tricky issue.  I agree with Paul Boni&#039;s point that people who may have only lived in Philly for 2 years can genuinely care about the place they live in.  I know that if I had to move - I would become a fierce advocate of my new community because decisions made in City Hall affect my well-being.  Philly is territorial - people have pride, traditions, as all communities and cultures do.  I get that.I have had many problems with the activist community here - particularly the West Philly activist community.  It&#039;s too polarized, too self-serving, and too pretentious.  The best community organizers - even the white ones from New England who come to Philly and try to change things - are those who admit to their wealth and privilege, and acknowledge the fucked up hierarchy - but don&#039;t pretend to look and dress like homeless people.  There&#039;s nothing genuine about MOST of the crust punks who hang out at the Satellite and come up with elaborate demonstrations for the G20 or the SOA.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having worked in politics &amp; advocacy for just five years, I&#8217;ve seen that &#8220;done deals&#8221; often can be unraveled with serious citizen power. Casino Free is doing a lot of that, and doing it well.  Casinos suck.</p><p>That said, the whole Philly native vs. transplant thing is a tricky issue.  I agree with Paul Boni&#8217;s point that people who may have only lived in Philly for 2 years can genuinely care about the place they live in.  I know that if I had to move &#8211; I would become a fierce advocate of my new community because decisions made in City Hall affect my well-being.  Philly is territorial &#8211; people have pride, traditions, as all communities and cultures do.  I get that.</p><p>I have had many problems with the activist community here &#8211; particularly the West Philly activist community.  It&#8217;s too polarized, too self-serving, and too pretentious.  The best community organizers &#8211; even the white ones from New England who come to Philly and try to change things &#8211; are those who admit to their wealth and privilege, and acknowledge the fucked up hierarchy &#8211; but don&#8217;t pretend to look and dress like homeless people.  There&#8217;s nothing genuine about MOST of the crust punks who hang out at the Satellite and come up with elaborate demonstrations for the G20 or the SOA.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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